Preamble

This guide is a summary of my knowledge, research, and experience from being a natural lifter for several years. The focus is how to gain muscle as efficiently and effectively as possible, but it also discusses how to be physically healthy in general.

General

There is a TON of misinformation surrounding hypertrophy, the science of enlarging and strengthening skeletal muscles. This entry serves to break down what actually works and make it as practical, efficient, effective, reasonable, and sustainable as possible. In addition, this entry will briefly touch on how to be physically healthy in general, although it is focused on hypertrophy.

In general, intensity > form (provided your form isn’t dangerous) and frequency > volume.

You won’t gain shit if you aren’t training hard. Your form is important, you will gain more if it is good, and is required to safely execute certain exercises without injury, but intensity is just more important for putting on muscle.

Intensity, in this context, means effort relative to failure: how close you actually get to the point where you physically cannot complete another rep. Most research shows that sets taken to within 1–2 reps of true failure stimulate nearly identical hypertrophy compared to absolute failure, provided the effort is real. HOWEVER, most people dramatically underestimate how close they are to true failure. Training “hard” means pushing past comfort, not just fatigue, until you literally cannot move the weight anymore.

To make progress over time, progressive overload must be present. Progressive overload means increasing weight, reps, technique, control, tension, or other factors over time. That being said, mechanical tension is the actual driver of growth. The goal is to maximize tension in the target muscle throughout the movement, not simply to lift heavier weights.

In general, more volume = more gains. HOWEVER, the diminishing returns are CONSIDERABLE. Four hard sets a week per muscle group is enough to stimulate noticeable growth. For ideal results, your body will probably need more for certain muscles, but in general, it is better to train a muscle more times a week rather than more sets in one session. So it is better to have a lower volume on more days than it is to have higher volume on fewer days. Like two hard sets one day, two hard sets three days later or something similar as a lower volume example. This is simply because the vast majority of muscles for the vast majority of lifters do not require an entire week to recover. Low volume works very well provided your sets are intense and is also incredibly time efficient.

Avoid junk volume. In one workout, per muscle, anything more than 6-8 hard sets will likely not result in any additional gains. This is another reason frequency > volume. And anything over 15 total sets in one workout will start to produce diminishing returns assuming you are training with high intensity.

Volume is best thought of as “effective sets per muscle per week,” sets that are taken close to failure with sufficient load and range. According to most hypertrophy research, for most people, 10–20 effective sets per muscle per week is the sweet spot depending on recovery, exercise selection, and experience. HOWEVER, according to more recent research, you can make just as much or more gains with lower volume (no more than 10 sets per muscle a week). It’s a bit complicated, but practically speaking, it is a lot easier to manage lower volume for most people, so do that unless you’re specifically training to be a bodybuilder. But note that low volume still does require that you train hard.

The volume versus intensity versus frequency debate goes very deep, and I’m only just scratching the surface. But if you want an actual answer: your volume does not matter much. You could be doing 50 sets a week that don’t push you anywhere near failure and make less gains than someone doing 5 who pushes every set to failure. As a golden rule: Train every set with intensity, use a low to moderate volume (number of sets), and train as frequently as practical for you based on scheduling and required rest time.

If you can manage that, here are general principles:

• Aim for around 4–8 sets per muscle per week, at most 10 sets
• Ideally those total sets are split between at least two workouts
• Each set with intensity
• Full range of motion or partial range prioritizing stretch

In terms of exercise selection, these are essential for a quality exercise:

• A big stretch at high tension
• Easy to progressively overload
• Pushed to true muscular failure
• Biomechanically biases a certain muscle in the most ideal way (angle, path of resistance, that stuff)

Now that general stuff is out of the way, I’ll get into the nitty gritty.

Technique and Biomechanics

Biomechanics determine how effectively you’re targeting a muscle. Exercises should align with your individual structure: limb lengths, joint angles, and strength curves all change what’s optimal for you. The “best” exercise on paper is the one that works for your body specifically without joint discomfort or compensatory movement. Feeling alone doesn’t determine the most ideal exercises, but it is a decently reliable indicator that you are training the muscle properly. It’s important to keep an objective viewpoint and not get attached to certain exercises. If you’re stagnating, it is probably time to change exercises, even if it produced great results in the past.

Good technique is about safety and mechanical efficiency. Use a controlled eccentric (1–2 seconds down), full range of motion (or partial range prioritizing the stretch), and pause for a brief moment at the bottom where tension is highest. Current research shows that prioritizing the stretch during training may stimulate more hypertrophy than not doing so, but even if it doesn’t, it’s still a good idea to train your full range of motion for practical reasons, namely significantly reducing the risk of injury.

Additionally, proper technique means the muscle you are training is the limiting factor. For example, if you are doing pullups, you probably want your back or lats to be the limiting factor, since that is primarily what pullups are meant to train. However, if your grip gives out before your back, that means your forearms are the limiting factor, meaning you aren’t stimulating your back as much as you could be. Your back would likely still have a few reps left. Solve this by training the weaker muscle to catch up, choosing different exercises for the time being, or working around it by using something like straps.

Intensity

While intensity drives hypertrophy, excessive fatigue destroys progression. Your goal is not just to train hard, but to also train smart.

Keep in mind the Stimulus-to-Fatigue Ratio (SFR): choose exercises that deliver the most local muscle stimulus with the least systemic fatigue. A hack squat may annihilate your quads without destroying your lower back: that’s a high SFR. But they also don’t train certain smaller stabilizing muscles that a traditional barbell squat would, so make sure to mix machines (including cables) and free weights. Deadlifts, on the other hand, train many muscles at once and produce a lot of systemic fatigue: low SFR. That’s why some movements, though great for overall strength, are not the most ideal options for hypertrophy. But note that every exercise has strengths and weaknesses; there is always a tradeoff, so maintain a variety of quality exercises to hit all bases.

You should still include compound exercises in your training. Presses, pullups, rows, squats, and hip hinges are always going to be the most essential movements you can perform, even if they train multiple muscles at once and have a lower SFR. But you can modify these exercises to prioritize the muscles you want to train, raising the SFR and promoting better technique.

Remember that if you want to actually grow muscle, intensity is king. Obviously don’t kill yourself, but if you are not training a muscle hard and close to failure, nothing else you do will matter. Your muscles need tension and stimulus to grow, and if you don’t give it sufficient amounts, it simply won’t grow.

Nutrition

Nutrition is extremely important, specifically for hypertrophy, but also for general health reasons. If you’re not getting enough protein (and other nutrients), your gains are going to be excruciatingly slow regardless of what you’re doing in the gym.

For muscle growth, aim for roughly 0.7g of protein per pound of bodyweight daily, a little higher if you want to be safe, spread evenly across a few meals a day. At most, 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight daily. People dramatically overestimate how much protein you actually need, and it’s expensive. Obviously, in general, more protein will help, but the diminishing returns are insane, so just get what you need plus a little more at most. Caloric surplus supports hypertrophy, but it doesn’t need to be extreme. 200–300 calories above maintenance (lean bulk) is plenty for lean mass gain.

For protein, stick primarily to lean meats. Chicken is a staple, but also incorporate beef, turkey, fish, pork, etc. Protein powder (typically whey) is also an effective option for increasing overall protein consumption, but it shouldn’t be your only protein source for health reasons. Protein bars are a quick and easy option, but be mindful of their nutrients and calories, and don’t overpay for them. Eggs are also solid when they’re not unreasonably expensive. Greek yogurt is good too. There are many good sources of protein, but those listed here (and adjacent to them) are ideal.

For carbs, stick to healthy, complex sources. Rice, potatoes, legumes, fruit, and vegetables are all good sources, among others. Whole grains are also good, but they are simple carbs, thus are way less satiating, so be mindful if that’s a concern for you.

For veggies, more variety is ideal. However, what’s more important is that you actually fucking eat them. Try spinach, kale, broccoli, garlic, onions, bell peppers, carrots, beets, frozen vegetables - there are tons of options. Find what you like and/or tolerate and consume basically as much as you can. Vegetables are absolutely packed with a variety of nutrients, thus are essential if you want to eat healthy.

Healthy fats are easy. You should be getting plenty just as a result of cooking with olive, avocado, or coconut oil, so this usually doesn’t require any additional effort at all. But if you happen to need more, use nuts, seeds, avocado, coconut, fatty fish, and nut/seed butters. Also, as a note: fats are healthy, you need fats to sustain your energy levels. Do not avoid them just because they sound bad.

While cooking is obviously required, sometimes you might need more calories yet don’t want to cook. Things like greek yogurt, cottage cheese, fruit, nuts, crackers, cheese, jerky, protein bars, Fairlife milk, and even popcorn (with low butter) are all good “snack-like” options in moderation. There are also some frozen meals with pretty decent macros, but these should be the exception, not the norm.

Seasonings and sauces are essentially required. For a healthy diet to be sustainable, it needs to taste at least moderately good. Just keep an eye on how these things (namely sauces) can add more calories than you’re expecting.

Also, keep refining your cooking. Things like chicken breast can taste a hell of a lot better if you just learn to cook it properly. Cooking is a skill, so keep working on it, and it will become more sustainable.

Try to have at least one healthy protein, carb, veggie, and fat source for every meal. Variety is generally better, but we’re aiming for practicality here. Make your diet as sustainable as possible for yourself. Multivitamins are also a good idea in general.

As long as you’re eating pretty healthy most of the time, you’re in a very good spot and can afford to eat crap sometimes. Your diet doesn’t need to be ridiculously strict unless you’re training for something extremely specific. Prioritize both health and sustainability.

Finally, supplements. If you’re eating healthy, no supplements actually matter unless you personally have a preexisting health condition, which should be discussed with your doctor. The only notable supplements are:

• Creatine monohydrate, the most researched sports supplement in existence. It has minor benefits to recovery (among other things) by pulling water into the muscles. Around 25% of people will be non-responders. Every form except monohydrate is a scam for one reason or another. The effects are nice, but minor. No researched downsides. Completely optional, but useful.
• Anything with caffeine, essentially preworkout. In general, I would say to stay away from relying on supplements to essentially feel normal, but it doesn’t hurt to take some caffeine on slow, tired days where it would help your performance. Just be mindful of how caffeine affects the rest of your body.

Every other supplement is a scam for one reason or another.

I want to briefly discuss fat loss because it is relevant here. I’m not going to get into the science, but if you want to lose weight, diet is far more important than exercise. If you are in a calorie deficit, (eating less calories than you burn) you will lose weight regardless of what you eat. Obviously, for health and satiety/hunger reasons, you should prioritize whole foods, but you could theoretically eat bullshit all day and still lose weight if you’re in a calorie deficit. You’ll probably feel like shit though.

You burn at least 80% of your calories by literally just existing. Your body is a remarkably adaptable system and likes to keep maintenance calories roughly the same, so exercise is very ineffective for weight loss. Also, genetics of course play a factor, but that is a case by case basis. And if you genuinely want to lose weight, take it slow. Not only does this force you to build healthy habits (instead of just not eating, which is not a solution) which will not only help you lose weight but also keep weight off, but it also makes the cut much more sustainable. Losing weight isn’t necessarily easy and you will be tempted, but you shouldn’t be actively suffering. Prioritize whole foods that satiate you for as long as possible and have as many nutrients as you need, eat them when you’re genuinely hungry (I default to four small meals a day, one of them just being an afternoon snack), keep an eye on your calories (obviously), and take things slow. And don’t be afraid to eat crap sometimes, just keep it heavily within moderation. That’s how you sustainably lose weight. It won’t be super easy, but you shouldn’t be actively suffering.

If you want to lose weight, you have to consume less calories than you burn. That is literally the only objective rule. Everything else discussed here is optional, but it will make the cut significantly easier to manage. Your health should be a priority too, not just appearance.

Recovery and Long-Term Progression

Muscle grows during recovery, not during training. Sleep, hydration, nutrition, and stress management all have a large impact on how much volume and intensity your body can handle. If you’re constantly sore, tired, or regressing in strength, your training frequency or recovery strategies likely need adjustment.

Instead of asking “how much can I do?” ask “how much can I recover from?” This requires knowing your body pretty well, so it will take some time and adjustment to figure out. At least, have a consistent sleep schedule and get enough sleep, drink plenty of water, eat reasonably well most of the time, and do your best to manage your mental health. The very process of attempting these things will force you to learn about your body and mind and what they require.

In general, you should be training 2-5 days a week with major muscle groups trained hard 2–3 times weekly. People dramatically overestimate how much volume and frequency you need to put on muscle, but as long as you’re training hard and recovering properly, you can get noticeable gains with pretty low volume. Training the same muscle on consecutive days isn’t ideal unless it’s a smaller muscle that recovers super fast for you. But it’s still not a great idea for proportionality reasons.

Rest time between sets during workouts isn’t super important, but if you want to be efficient, it shouldn’t really be above five minutes unless the set was especially fatiguing. In general, the bigger the muscle or the more muscles used + the intensity of the set = the longer the rest required.

Track your lifts, effort levels, and recovery in some form. Either write it down or just have freakishly good memory. Progressively overload, but be patient: hypertrophy takes months or years, not days or weeks. Rotate exercises at least every few weeks. Most of your gains will come from consistent training of a few biomechanically solid movements pushed close to failure with good technique.

Ultimately, what is most important is whatever is sustainable for you. Patience and consistency are required. You won’t see ridiculous improvements in a short period of time if you’re staying natural. So you want your routine to be as sustainable as possible above all else. None of this matters if you don’t stick to it. It’s not the perfect program that is the best for you, but the one you can personally sustain, progress, and recover from, even if not every variable is optimized.

Also, just to note: Splits largely aren’t important if they follow all the principles listed here. My current split is LPPLU (legs, push, pull, lower, upper, rest, rest) but that’s just what works for me and my schedule.

Expectations

Understanding what progress should look like at different levels of experience is essential for staying motivated and avoiding unrealistic expectations. Hypertrophy and strength progression are not linear, especially if you’re natural. They usually follow a pattern of bursts and plateaus with a long term trend upwards that is hard to notice while you’re experiencing it.

Many people give hypertrophy advice without clarifying the experience stage they’re talking about. This results in a lot of contradiction, confusion, and misunderstood expectations. I am attempting to clarify that here. Also, for reference, this entry is written by an intermediate stage lifter (with advanced stage knowledge ;).

The timeline below assumes you are natural and remain natural. The time estimates for each stage are also very rough ballparks.

Beginner Stage

Around 0-1.5 years of consistent training.

What To Expect

• Strength increases rapidly, sometimes every single week.
• Muscle is visibly noticeable within a few months in most muscles.
• Technique (should) improve dramatically.
• Neural adaptations dominate early progress (your body learns to use existing muscle more efficiently).
• Most lifts feel like they go up every time you walk into the gym.

Progressive Overload

• Linear-ish, adding weight or reps every session is reasonably achievable.
• Every intense set stimulates growth because the stimulus threshold is low.
• Recovery is generally quick once you’re through the very first weeks of training.

Plateaus

• Usually short (1–3 weeks).
• Usually caused by technique breakdown, undereating protein, inconsistent effort, or poor exercise selection. Fixing these issues often kickstarts progress again.

Intermediate Stage

Around 1.5-5 years of consistent training.

What To Expect

• Strength development slows down significantly.
• Most lifts no longer increase weekly. Instead, they improve in waves.
• Visible hypertrophy slows but becomes more dense and “aesthetic”.
• Different muscle groups start to progress at noticeably different rates.
• Machines and cables might become easier to progress on than free weights for a variety of reasons.
• Plateaus become normal and last longer.

Progressive Overload

• Not linear. You will have bursts of progress lasting 1–3 weeks, followed by 2–6 weeks of stagnation. On average. Generalization.
• Compound lifts progress noticeably faster than isolation lifts.
• Smaller muscles start to stagnate significantly (ex. delts, biceps, triceps), while larger muscles keep growing fairly regularly (ex. quads, back, hamstrings)
  • Compounds and/or large muscles: maybe +2.5–5 lbs every 2–6 weeks.
  • Isolations and/or small muscles: may not increase load for weeks or even months. Progress comes from the quality of reps, control, stretch, and execution.

Plateaus

• Completely normal and expected.
• Usually last several weeks.
• Burst, plateau, burst cycles are the natural pattern for intermediates.
  • Note: Plateaus in the intermediate stage are more common because your body no longer adapts linearly. You’ve built a solid foundation in the beginner phase, but in the intermediate phase, you begin truly pushing your body to what it is capable of, and it takes a lot more time and stimulus to adapt.
    • This is also why, if you previously had a lot more muscle, lost it, and attempt regaining it, it is usually significantly faster than the first time because your body had already adapted previously.

Advanced Stage

Around 5+ years of consistent training.

What To Expect

• Strength increases extremely slowly.
• Hypertrophy becomes subtle and long term. Changes become noticeable only over long periods of time, like 6–12 months.
• Progressing every lift becomes practically impossible.
• Fatigue is much higher and recovery takes much longer due to extremely heavy loads. This also means volume must go down if intensity and stimulus remain high.
• Exercise selection and technique become highly refined. Optimizations matter a lot here.
• Genetic ceilings start becoming clear.

Progressive Overload

• Entirely non-linear and sporadic.
• Quality of reps becomes the primary progression method since weight and reps may stay the same for months.
• Technical refinements often produce more improvement than load increases.
• Training cycles between high intensity and deloads due to extremely heavy loads.

Plateaus

• The body is near its adaptive limit and progress will be small and slow.
• Gains happen in “one rep every few months” type increments.
• Overload is measured in tension, mind–muscle connection, and technique.

Exercise Selection

Anything in this entry marked with a ^ shows strong evidence of being a very solid overall exercise for that muscle specifically. That doesn’t mean to disregard the rest, rather it means to definitely include those exercises if possible.

Generally avoid: If these exercises work for you, great, but there are definitely better options for the vast majority of people. Try them out if you want, but don’t expect much. Don’t bother: These exercises are a waste of time almost without exception.

Upper Body

Chest

Include a flat or incline press and a chest fly.

• Flat press: Barbell or dumbbell press, machine press
• ^Incline press: Barbell or dumbbell incline press, machine incline press
• Chest fly: Cable, machine, or dumbbell fly (partial reps, stretched for dumbbells)
• Dips are decent, bias the chest by leaning forward

Don’t bother: Any close-grip press (emphasizes triceps)

Back

Include a horizontal and vertical pull. In general, horizontal biases mid back and traps while vertical biases lats.

• Horizontal: Any chest supported row, cable and machine rows
• Vertical: Lat pulldowns, pullups, single arm lat pulldowns
• Lat pullovers are also good for isolating lats
• Lat rows are also good if technique is correct
• Bent over rows are a good generalist option

Don’t bother: Deadlifts (emphasizes lower body if technique is good)

Shoulders

Shoulders are arguably the most complicated muscle because of how much freedom of motion they have. As a result, there isn’t a single exercise that actually trains every part of them. I have split them up based on general deltoid heads as a result.

Shoulders technically have a lot more than three heads. As a rule of thumb, hold your arms out straight (elbow not bent) and move your arm around in every direction. That is your shoulder’s range of motion, and you should try your best to train roughly all of those angles. Keep in mind how rotating your wrist slightly alters your shoulder.

Front (anterior) delts

• Supinated cable front raise, flared a little
• Bicep curls but arms stay bent and you press upwards, stay on an incline of around 60 (can do with with barbell, dumbbells, or machine if you have one)

Front delts do get hit pretty well from chest training, but it is still a good idea to do isolation work for them since effective chest training biases the chest, not the shoulders

Side delts

• Cable lateral raise, internally rotated arms, scapular plane
• Can also do with dumbbells
• Any lateral raise is good but this exercise is biomechanically optimized (trust me bro I can lateral raise 30 pounds right now)

This is the most important deltoid head to isolate given it doesn’t get stimulated by any other notable exercises. It also is the most significant head for aesthetic reasons, giving your shoulders a more rounded look.

Rear (posterior) delts

• Low dual-cable rear delt fly
• Single arm, partial reps, low cable rear delt fly
• Reverse pec deck

Rear delts do get hit pretty well from back training, but it is still a good idea to do isolation work for them since effective back training biases the back, not the shoulders

Generally avoid: Shoulder press. This is a controversial statement. But shoulder press / overhead press, while a good movement for overall strength, is not a great driver of hypertrophy for most people. For most, it kinda hits the side delts and tickles the front delts, alongside involving chest and triceps. So if you ask me, just train all of those muscles directly. Shoulder press is still a decent generalist option, but it should be the exception to your training, not the norm. Again, this is a controversial statement, and is based on my current understanding of hypertrophy. You should still learn how to shoulder press, but in my opinion, prioritize the other exercises provided above for hypertrophy.

Don’t bother: Arnold press, external rotation (biomechanically stupid)

Traps

• Shrugs

Try leaning forward on like a 15 degree angle (preferably with a bench) to better emphasize the traps. Also don’t roll your shoulders.

Neck

Not recommended for newer lifters.

• Neck curls
• Neck extensions
• Lateral neck flexion

Important note: Traps and neck isolation work is rarely necessary if you’re training your back and shoulders properly. But if you insist.

Triceps

Ideally include an overhead extension movement and a pressdown movement.

• ^Overhead extension
• Skull crushers
• Tricep pressdown
• Cable kickbacks
• Dips are decent, bias the triceps by being straight up

Don’t bother: Dumbbell kickbacks (not a great exercise to begin with, zero tension at the stretch, awkward motion)

Biceps

Basically any curl that gives a good stretch.

• Bicep curls
• ^Bayesian cable curls
• Incline bicep curls
• Preacher curls
• Lying dumbbell curls
• Face-away cable curls

Generally avoid: Back exercises, cheat curls

Don’t bother: Waiter curls (cuts range of motion significantly)

Forearms

Note: Reverse bicep curls and hammer curls obviously, being curls, also utilize the bicep. But they primarily stimulate the forearm.

• Wrist curls
• Wrist extensions (reverse wrist curls)
• Rice bucket training
• Cable wrist flexor
• Reverse bicep curl
• Hammer curls
• Dead hang

Generally avoid: Back exercises

Don’t bother: Anything that looks stupid as hell (it ain’t that deep). Forearms control grip and wrist movement, that’s it. Don’t overcomplicate it with bullshit.

Abs and Obliques

• Cable crunches
• Machine crunches
• Decline sit-ups
• Hanging leg/knee raise
• Dragon flags
• Obliques: cable twist. Or really any kind of twist

Generally avoid: Anything not listed here

Don’t bother: Stupid ab workouts/circuits. Abs follow the same principles as every other muscle and their visibility is highly dependent on body fat percentage. Ab circuits are glorified cardio.

Lower Body

Deadlifts work a lot of muscles simultaneously, and for that reason, are generally to be avoided if the goal is hypertrophy. It is too much of a generalist and has the lowest SFR of any exercise. Despite this, you should still learn how to deadlift.

• Conventional form biases hamstrings and glutes
• Sumo form biases quads

What’s important is that you actually fucking hit legs. Please. Those chicken legs make you look stupid regardless of how big your upper body is.

Quads

Include a squat and some other leg movement, ideally a leg extension.

Squats that, in general:

• Have knees move forward over toes (most important)
• Elevate your heels
• Keep feet at a comfortable distance
• Maintain upright posture or have torso parallel with calves while you squat

Including:

• Smith machine squat
• ^Pendulum squat (if you have one)
• Belt squat (if you have one)
• Hack/V squat
• Sissy squat
• Split squats
• Standard barbell squat

Other leg movements:

• Leg extension that give a good stretch
• Leg press with low foot position
• Dumbbell walking lunges

And if you have some serious demons to fight:

• Heel-elevated quad-dominant Bulgarian smith split squat

Hamstrings

Include a hamstring curl and hip hinge.

• Hamstring curls: Machine hamstring curl. Preferably seated, but lying also works. Use a dumbbell in between your feet if you don’t have the machine even if it’s a little awkward
• Hip hinge: Romanian deadlift, stiff-leg deadlift, both with barbell or dumbbells. Can also do it on a smith machine or a cable row machine if you learn the technique

Important note: ROMANIAN DEADLIFTS ARE NOT THE SAME AS DEADLIFTS. Learn the technique of both and understand why RDLs smash your hamstrings (and glutes) specifically while standard deadlifts hit several muscles simultaneously, poorly.

Calves

Calf raise machine that gives a good stretch. Standing is much better than seated. If no calf raise machine is present, use a hack squat or leg press machine, do single leg calf raises, or do some engineering. Stretch is ESSENTIAL for calves and partial reps are heavily encouraged, much more so than other muscles. Point feet in or out to bias certain heads.

That’s literally all you need for calves, but you have to actually hit them. Stop skipping them. They’re easy.

Glutes

• ^Hip thrusts
• Glute abduction and adduction machines
• Glute cable kickbacks
• Reverse lunges
• Split squats

Important note: Glute isolation work is rarely necessary. If you’re training the rest of your lower body well (with squats and hip hinges), your glutes already get sufficient stimulus. But if you want a fatter dumpy, feel free.